“Ok, today we’re going to be using Bathonic, a tool that lets us easily post our homework, classwork, pictures, and audio interviews in ONE place! Ok…let’s get started….”
As the class hunkers down in the computer lab–reserved for just this purpose–one of the students points out, “Miss, this says I have to be 15 years old at least. I just turned eleven. Is it OK?”
“Yes, Raylene,” responds Ms. MacLed, “Go right ahead. We are using this in our classroom and your parents will love it when they can see what a wonderful job,” she gushes, “you’re doing in class!”
Source: A Fictional Scenario written by Miguel Guhlin
Update: Read the Redux version of this.
A classroom teacher instructs her students to lie to get the benefit of an online email account, or service. But then, what happens? Should that teacher be disciplined by her school administrator for requiring her students to lie (e.g. their age) to qualify for a free web-based service? Worse, what happens if something goes drastically wrong with what students are using that web-based service?
These questions have come up in my own conversations with educators as an education consultant, and I was happy to see that one of our resident edublogosphere lawyers–The Edjurist, Justin Bathon–had taken it on, citing this example:
The question is what are the legal ramifications of this scenario (here is how Jeremy Brueck wrote it in his notes):
A teacher wants to do an activity with her 5th graders. The activity requires the use of online software, which either runs online or is a download. To access the program, the user has to agree to a “terms of use” agreement. Like many of these, it contains an age provision (typically 13) (here is a typical example: Blogger). The teacher proceeds anyway to (1) either create an account for the students or (2) encourages the students to check the “I agree to the terms of service” button anyway – or other variations on that same theme. Anyway, the point is that a 12 year old or younger student is using a website with a terms of service agreement that requires them to be 13 or older. Something bad then happens; either (1) the students violate the terms of service or (2) some type of injury occurs (think sexting) and the parents sue everyone.
At this point, Justin has me wondering, how many teachers out there have embraced Read/Write Web tools–you substitute any one of hundreds available to you–to get students online, including kindergarten students, and required students to click “I Agree”? He clarifies what he thinks in regards to inappropriate use of that web-based service a child has been signed up for by a teacher:
Both the school and the teacher are likely to be sued both by the software company and by the parents if there is that type of injury. In fact, there might even be a case of the school suing the teacher.
Depending on what exactly happened, fraud might be involved which is clearly outside the scope of a teacher’s employment and thus not covered by immunity statutes. So, personal liability for the teacher here is not out of the question.
In the scenario I presented at the top of this post, the decision for disciplinary action clearly lies with the campus administrator, doesn’t it? I mean, that’s the safest route for a school district to take.
That is, school districts should advocate the following:
- Strongly work to help teachers understand that having students lie on web-based services (e.g. email, whatever) is an ethical violation.
- If a teacher should be found to be encouraging a student to violate an agreement for a web-based service–having a 12 year old sign up for a service only eligible to thirteen year olds and older–notify their campus administrator so they can take appropriate action.
But what constitutes appropriate action? And, what will appropriate action look like from a District perspective?
Thoughts? I encourage you to contact your Human Resources Department and share what they would do in response here!
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Thanks for writing this. I've struggled with this issue more than once. The arguments I get from teachers are "nobody reads the user agreements anyway", "kids do it all the time", "nobody actually checks this stuff", and "they all have Facebook pages before they're 13"…. Drives me crazy. I spend a big chunk of time helping kids to get it and do training with parents a couple of times per year, but getting teachers and administrators to get it is another thing. It's somewhat comforting to know I'm not the only one facing the issue.
Thanks for writing this. I've struggled with this issue more than once. The arguments I get from teachers are “nobody reads the user agreements anyway”, “kids do it all the time”, “nobody actually checks this stuff”, and “they all have Facebook pages before they're 13″…. Drives me crazy. I spend a big chunk of time helping kids to get it and do training with parents a couple of times per year, but getting teachers and administrators to get it is another thing. It's somewhat comforting to know I'm not the only one facing the issue.
Great post. I know many teachers who clearly mean well, but take too many short cuts to achieve their objective. There needs to be a clear understanding about this, and this kind of conversation is extremely healthy. It's hard for some administrators because they also are not up to speed on these issues. I'm sharing this post with my co-workers.
Great post. I know many teachers who clearly mean well, but take too many short cuts to achieve their objective. There needs to be a clear understanding about this, and this kind of conversation is extremely healthy. It's hard for some administrators because they also are not up to speed on these issues. I'm sharing this post with my co-workers.
There are two problems here that have not been addressed.1. Many of the sites such as blogs, and other Web 2.0 require email addresses to open accounts. If we cannot allow students to use Web 2.0 tools then we might as well shut down any hopes of using meaningful technology in the classrooms. As long as parents know what is going on and give consent then everything is okay.2. We need to be teaching students how to use the Internet ethically. However, a law of good intentions have gotten in the way. Kids are getting on these sites on their own or with friends' help but there is no one to teach students how to use them properly because they cannot be accessed at school. Kids will and are doing unethical and illegal things on the Internet without us. Instead of trying to teach the use properly we are to say we have covered our collective butts and shove our heads in the sand while kids continue to cyberbully, do sexting, illegal file sharing and other harm to themselves?It is a tough situation but one in which we may need to take the lesser of two evils.
There are two problems here that have not been addressed.1. Many of the sites such as blogs, and other Web 2.0 require email addresses to open accounts. If we cannot allow students to use Web 2.0 tools then we might as well shut down any hopes of using meaningful technology in the classrooms. As long as parents know what is going on and give consent then everything is okay.2. We need to be teaching students how to use the Internet ethically. However, a law of good intentions have gotten in the way. Kids are getting on these sites on their own or with friends' help but there is no one to teach students how to use them properly because they cannot be accessed at school. Kids will and are doing unethical and illegal things on the Internet without us. Instead of trying to teach the use properly we are to say we have covered our collective butts and shove our heads in the sand while kids continue to cyberbully, do sexting, illegal file sharing and other harm to themselves?It is a tough situation but one in which we may need to take the lesser of two evils.
What is the magic about the age of 13? If the answer is logical it might help teachers understand.
What is the magic about the age of 13? If the answer is logical it might help teachers understand.
So what if I sign my 5th graders up for Google Apps, but they don't even know they have email accounts and so far have never used them? And parents sign a media appearances form that says: Media AppearancesI give permission for my son/daughter‘s school (named on current page) to record, film, photograph, interview and/or publicly exhibit, distribute, or publish my son/daughter‘s name, appearance, and spoken words during the 2011-2012 school year, whether undertaken by school or District staff, students, or the media. I agree that the school may use, or allow other to use, those works without limitation or compensation. I release the school and the Washoe County School District staff from any claims arising out of my son/daughter‘s appearance or participation in these works.http://www.washoecountyschools.org/taylor/Student%20Handbook%20Eng%20_For%20Print1.pdfJust asking.
So what if I sign my 5th graders up for Google Apps, but they don't even know they have email accounts and so far have never used them? And parents sign a media appearances form that says: Media AppearancesI give permission for my son/daughter‘s school (named on current page) to record, film, photograph, interview and/or publicly exhibit, distribute, or publish my son/daughter‘s name, appearance, and spoken words during the 2011-2012 school year, whether undertaken by school or District staff, students, or the media. I agree that the school may use, or allow other to use, those works without limitation or compensation. I release the school and the Washoe County School District staff from any claims arising out of my son/daughter‘s appearance or participation in these works.http://www.washoecountyschools.org/taylor/Student%20Handbook%20Eng%20_For%20Print1.pdfJust asking.
Miguel, thank you for posting on this topic. It is sticky, as many educators have good intentions in wanting students to be able to access powerful tools. But as educators we have, in my opinion, an equal if not more important obligation to teach students the importance of ethical behavior, which includes following a site's Terms of Service. The "students are doing it anyway" argument does not hold water with me because that would undermine any ethical principles we attempt to teach. There is always someone doing it "wrong"; that does not negate that it should be done correctly.I recently wrote a related post on using Animoto with students under 13. One of the main reasons I needed to research Animoto's TOS is because elementary teachers in my district went to a workshop which showed them how to use Animoto with students. Those of us who consult, do training, or share edtech ideas via the web must also be aware of usage policies and set an example of promoting ethical use of web tools.
Miguel, thank you for posting on this topic. It is sticky, as many educators have good intentions in wanting students to be able to access powerful tools. But as educators we have, in my opinion, an equal if not more important obligation to teach students the importance of ethical behavior, which includes following a site's Terms of Service. The “students are doing it anyway” argument does not hold water with me because that would undermine any ethical principles we attempt to teach. There is always someone doing it “wrong”; that does not negate that it should be done correctly.I recently wrote a related post on using Animoto with students under 13. One of the main reasons I needed to research Animoto's TOS is because elementary teachers in my district went to a workshop which showed them how to use Animoto with students. Those of us who consult, do training, or share edtech ideas via the web must also be aware of usage policies and set an example of promoting ethical use of web tools.
@John WoodringThere are plenty of blogs and other Web 2.0 sites that DON'T require email addresses of the students. I don't believe lying is the lesser of two evils. I believe finding a solution that fits your needs without breaking the terms of service is the lesser of two evils. I believe it is wrong to tell our students to lie about their age for an account. It is hard for them to understand when it is okay and when it is unsafe. I agree in some instances the age requirement seems silly, but I believe the correct thing to do is to email the site customer service an inquire on the policy and request an educator version that allows for teachers to establish accounts or something along those lines. @Miguel – I think the teacher in your scenario meant well, but should be reprimanded. And I believe those of us whose job it is to educate teachers, should be teaching them it is NOT okay to have students lie about their age, and it is NOT okay to knowing break terms of service – even if you disagree with them.
@John WoodringThere are plenty of blogs and other Web 2.0 sites that DON'T require email addresses of the students. I don't believe lying is the lesser of two evils. I believe finding a solution that fits your needs without breaking the terms of service is the lesser of two evils. I believe it is wrong to tell our students to lie about their age for an account. It is hard for them to understand when it is okay and when it is unsafe. I agree in some instances the age requirement seems silly, but I believe the correct thing to do is to email the site customer service an inquire on the policy and request an educator version that allows for teachers to establish accounts or something along those lines. @Miguel – I think the teacher in your scenario meant well, but should be reprimanded. And I believe those of us whose job it is to educate teachers, should be teaching them it is NOT okay to have students lie about their age, and it is NOT okay to knowing break terms of service – even if you disagree with them.
PS – I also don't allow my children to lie about their ages to get into movies cheaper or each cheaper at restaurant. And believe me, they can all pass for much younger than they are. Not to say I've never lied, but it's a pretty black and white issue for me for something like this – when we're in the position of teaching our students/kids moral values.Okay, I'm off the box now. Really.
PS – I also don't allow my children to lie about their ages to get into movies cheaper or each cheaper at restaurant. And believe me, they can all pass for much younger than they are. Not to say I've never lied, but it's a pretty black and white issue for me for something like this – when we're in the position of teaching our students/kids moral values.Okay, I'm off the box now. Really.
1. @Brian Crosby – just wondering, are you willing to share that Media Appearances Policy as I am in the process of revamping my classroom AUP and there are some great things there I could use.2. Just recently read another post like this with a bit of a different twist, "Google Made My Son Cry" (http://www.sunpig.com/martin/archives/2011/07/03/google-made-my-son-cry.html). Some good comments were posted below about some things we ought perhaps consider, given the rapid changes we are seeing with technology. While the regulations are well-intentioned, is it time to perhaps rethink the age limit? There are scary, undesirable folks at the mall, too, but I don't stop my son from going there ~ I teach him the right way to handle compromising situations. Isn't it time we start doing the same early on for our children, online, too? Don't get me wrong, it is unacceptable for a teacher to try and circumvent the system and policies in place given this situation. But, maybe we need to start rethinking the policies.
@Brian Crosby – just wondering, are you willing to share that Media Appearances Policy as I am in the process of revamping my classroom AUP and there are some great things there I could use.2. Just recently read another post like this with a bit of a different twist, “Google Made My Son Cry” (http://www.sunpig.com/martin/archives/2011/07/03/google-made-my-son-cry.html). Some good comments were posted below about some things we ought perhaps consider, given the rapid changes we are seeing with technology. While the regulations are well-intentioned, is it time to perhaps rethink the age limit? There are scary, undesirable folks at the mall, too, but I don't stop my son from going there ~ I teach him the right way to handle compromising situations. Isn't it time we start doing the same early on for our children, online, too? Don't get me wrong, it is unacceptable for a teacher to try and circumvent the system and policies in place given this situation. But, maybe we need to start rethinking the policies.
The "magic" about the age 13 is the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998 (COPPA).It defines a child as 'The term "child" means an individual under the age of 13.' The idea is banning children in your Terms of Service eliminates the need to build in additional protection.
The “magic” about the age 13 is the Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998 (COPPA).It defines a child as 'The term “child” means an individual under the age of 13.' The idea is banning children in your Terms of Service eliminates the need to build in additional protection.
If it's the law, it's the law. Has anyone create a site that tells us what sites allow users 13 and under? That would be magical!
If it's the law, it's the law. Has anyone create a site that tells us what sites allow users 13 and under? That would be magical!
@mlowak I just created a wiki where we can enter links to sites that would be appropriate for students under 13 years old. You can find it at http://sitesforyoungerstudents.wikispaces.com/Please feel free to add links and descriptions of site you may know about.
@mlowak I just created a wiki where we can enter links to sites that would be appropriate for students under 13 years old. You can find it at http://sitesforyoungerstudents.wikispaces.com/Please feel free to add links and descriptions of site you may know about.